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WTF?


Sorry to reshare this in English, however let me say who care about Gnome and the third parties and their stupid war to gain control over the end-users...

It is not a novelty the only theme that works with the GTK3 is Adwaita, for the Gnome people you must use their DE like they want and if you are in disagreed you are just an ignorant dumb; but it doesn't make sense why a DE want control the software you use so in depth, starting from systemd. And the third parties aren't different, who cares about your identity? Release your brand assets as GPL and you resolve all your issues... Want monetize your effort? Cool, put your application on android or ios, and keep off your mask.

Continues with this shit and you will kill free software definitely...

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I dont really get it: its still GNU/Linux is it not? That is: why whine about GNOME, just use KDE/Plasma or XFCE or etc etc etc instead.
The thing is: the Linux desktop is the best desktop imaginable since 10 years, trying to "improve" it, is laughable and should not raise rants but shrug. The single thing, that could be a interesting new development, would be true convertibility. As in: connect vour phone to a real screen plus mouse and keyboard and use it like a PC, with PC applications for productive stuff.

Application devs should not target any desktop environment, they should develop software for Linux. Any application that would not run OK if a user starts it in Fluxbox or KDE or LXDE etc etc is broken.

The GNOME project has many tendencies that are idiotic. No, "Files" is not a good name for a file manager, much less, if everybody knows, that it is plain old pretty good Nautilus. Nobody needs applications to look the same. On the contrary: every application should have a look that is individually optimized for its task. Of course, there should... show more

This how GNOME tries to take control over the others GTK DE environment: control through complexity.

They crafted the GNOME DE so fine around itself that not even flatpak, that should be the new way on packages delivery on GNOME, is able to display adwaita properly...

This how GNOME tries to take control over the others GTK DE environment: control through complexity.
@Daniel im so glad you agree.

heres a short list of such things: https://freemedia.neocities.org/redix-watch.html

gnome isnt listed yet.

i happen to think a lot of people are trying to take over / steer free software away from user control and towards organisational / corporate control. we need to stand against this trend, but the fsf wont (because as long as its freely licensed they dont care) and open source in general wont (because they encourage such efforts even if theyre deliberate and overt.)

@Daniel I actually kind of like the way gnome3 changed the UI up, versus the old v2 UI, that was just yet another familiar DE in the boring M$ windows style. I don't use gnome, but I like that it gives a novel user experience - personally I'm a manual tiling guy, i3wm here (but I do use a few gnome utilities to make the i3 WM more of a fully functional DE). But the Gnome team are getting way too big-headed. Their egos are out of control - they think they ARE GNU/Linux, rather than an option among many others.

they think they ARE GNU/Linux, rather than an option among many others.
common and growing problem in the dev world. egos befitting the corporate world they are fanboys of.

@freemedia@thepirate.party

When free software stopped to be an individual effort, like the same Linux Kernel was at beginning, to become developed mainly by corporations it stopped to be also something made for the common good and for the sake of every all in the respect of the 4 freedoms. Most people are fine with it until the next generation of Linux will be bonded with an (hypothetical) M$ Windows DE exactly as it happened with systemd and Gnome 3.

@Adam Gaskins

Gnome 3 started as thing and ended up as another, this is not really an example of having a clear idea about a project, and eventually to fix its insubstantiality you have to install a tons of extensions just to re-enable what is always worked and didn't need to change at all. So the paradigm was changed from a UI able to work on different devices (too ambitious thinking to run faster than Android) to a UI for hidpi monitor. With all the Gnome3 devs offending the others, exactly as the systemd devs do, and hence you can easily understand where is the origin of their arrogance...

@Daniel what we need to do is find a way to salvage free software from this onslaught.

we have lost much, we will lose more, the key is to retain as much as possible so that they dont win (take) all and we dont lose everything.

we need to be able to define this-- or at least be able to explain it coherently to as many people as possible. they will defend/attack with trolls (as they always have) and so on, but we need to stand for what is important to us.

gnome is a dead project imo. it serves little or no purpose, but gtk is still important for now. a gtk fork would be nice, or perhaps we will have to use qt.

i have nothing against qt per se. its obvious from watching razor-qt and even pcmanfm-qt that if everything were qt-based we would be worse off... not because qt is inferior (i dont think it is at all) but because gtk development made things easier for enough people that trying to move everything from gtk to qt is going to result in a lot of cut corners.

not that... show more

@freemedia@thepirate.party you say: "the way it is won is vigilance"
OK but much more important than watching other specific projects is to keep the abilities you need to be independent of these projects.
Have a look upon Ardour (ardour.org) : its GTK and its fully independent of GNOME, you can install and run it in KDE or Fluxbox and it will work the same as in GNOME, you can even compile it for Mac or Windows and it will work. And it looks exacly as intended by its devs, everywhere.

@freemedia@thepirate.party

I don't see Gnome a dead project... It is adopted widely from all the distributions even GUIX. With the libhandy library from PureOS it can be used now on every device. It is alive and healthy.

The point is the one stand out by @Hartmut Noack, there is no reason to stick an application to a particular DE unless it is a core application or you are trying to create a further separation among the GTK DE, and this is not very nice...

OK but much more important than watching other specific projects is to keep the abilities you need to be independent of these projects.
agreed, but this is the harder part. what we would be watching for per se, are projects that do this the right way and dont try to create silos deliberately.

but we need people who care about free software to admit that this silo-building goes on, that it is vying for something a bit like monopoly, and it is usually done by projects that have grown large and important enough that they try to use their influence to steer other things (regardless of the wishes or needs of users.)

the fsf doesnt care about these things so long as the software is freely licensed.

but it is an open bid against user freedom, against autonomy, and it makes the free software ecosystem as a whole brittle and co-opted. when it is overt and when devs are bragging and gloating that you will have no choice (ive heard this about azure from microsoft evangelists, gnome from their evangelists, and systemd from lennart himself) then they a... show more

It is way how the free software is created these days, if before was a single initiative made voluntary in the spare time now the new projects have a sponsor behind and try to monetize their efforts. The latter are released with permissive licenses, like GPL2v2 or BSD, and refuse to use GPL3 or being behind the FSF umbrella. As a matter of fact the GPL3 advantages the end-users against the corporations. And it is mostly used in voluntary projects that aren't interested in monetize their projects.

there are other reasons to use permissive licenses-- but ultimately there are things that are probably better off with gpl and agpl.

gpl does make things harder to co-opt but not impossible. i believe that gpl was a good choice for the kernel-- gpl3 would be better. but that alone wont stop it from being co-opted. gkh is going to turn linux into a corporate kernel, complete with major losses to backwards compatibility / older hw support.

forking the kernel will be necessary. the problem is, forks like that dont tend to have much momentum. less support, people are less aware of them, we need them though they wont magically fix everything. we sort of need a free software movement within the free software movement.

Regarding /redix-watch.html, @freemedia@thepirate.party :

systemd is over eager to take over everything, thats true. But as a replacement for init its does pretty well. Most distros used to have their own convenience tools like "service" or the like, to have a single, common interface for all that is the most positive outcome of systemd(apart from the speed up of the start process) Anyway: I did not see any other worthwhile alternative to SysV init...

Pulseaudio was never meant to make life better for musicians, it is not designed to do that in the first place. On the contrary: it is meant for consumers, that want a simple audio setup for headphones etc. The example of a idiotic default for volume settings is just that: a single fallacy easily to repair.
And to have pulseaudio run as a slave in Jack ends all trouble for musicians under Linux: have VLC and Firefox etc play some stuff, have Steam games shout and roar and have Ardour running the same time. Thats good.

ip suite is for IPv6, it supports it properly, I dont miss ifconfig etc....

Fair enough, however systemd is a clone of lauchd (and svchost) and the success of Linux on the server market was also because it was different from the others competitors... If all the OSes work the same, if all of them use the same DE, the same application, etc. where is the difference? where are the benefits for the end-users? The fragmentation today is almost a remember of the past, all the distro are converging in one mono-distro where the difference is made just by the marketing assets.

About Pulseaudio I remember the time where the overhead was almost the 30% of the CPU and everything could be fixed by a simple alsa plugin with a very simple config file that you could save on your home with 0% overhead...

Is ironic that almost all the most hateful or controversial software were made by the same developer...

I find it odd that jack never took over the desktop and came to be only used for pro/simi-pro audio applications, mainly. It seemed to support all the application (and finer) grained things that pulse does, and it was capable of far lower latency for things like midi or RT audio processing... I don't have the technical know-how to grok jack's codebase, but it seems to me it just never had that killer GUI utility that noob users want, and pulse filled that need - at the cost of a lot of wasted clock cycles and much less flexible system. Sure, more flexible than also, maybe... but no way it's more flexible than jackd

to have a single, common interface for all that is the most positive outcome of systemd(apart from the speed up of the start process)
but, id rather have some less-than-stellar software than something "better" from people bent on controlling what i do with it.

ive heard for years that windows is "better" but i got away from it because i was tired of it having more say over my computer than microsoft did. which brings us back to why systemd is wrong for free software. if people want to use it, use it-- so long as we understand that the people crying out against it are doing so with very good reason.

@freemedia but there's no real argument for 'windows is better', at best it may boil down to 'windows as a platform has been strategically (underhandedly even) positioned in the marketplace in a way to discourage companies from using competing and/or alternative technologies, thus it has more (ill gotten) commercial software support'.

I've yet to hear anything resembling a valid argument that shows any area where Windows has better performance, features or stability than Gnu/Linux.

I want the absolute best performance, stability and feature-set I can get - my only caveat is that it be open-source if at all possible. I don't think these things really pose existential threats to the OSS in and of themselves, the threat comes from in-fighting over things that those looking in don't even understand at all, nor have any concern for. Systemd, pulseaudio and Gnome3 make for a Gnu/Linux system that folks like my parents and non-techie friends can use easily and with little problems. Tha... show more

"but, id rather have some less-than-stellar software "

me too ;-)

sad but true: nobody came up with a less ambitious(or my I say: less imperialistic) solution for the obvious problem of SysV init getting old beyond repair.

I actually think, that systemd should be tamed by just using, what it does OK (as in: init) and rejecting its ambitions to gain control about everything else. Thinking about distributing variants of systemd, that are deliberately cut back may be a thing...

Oh, I like that idea a lot. Fork it, trim it and maintain it.

Jackd is designed for extreme low latency under heavy load with a multitude of different streams from several applications. That sounds good for any purpose but on the other hand it also means, that audio is the main task for the machine, when jack hugs the soundcard. And that it demands every second of CPU power to make sure, audio buffers are processed in less then 10 Milliseconds if needed. So: the battery of laptops go down significantly faster if Jackd is running and the fans are howling if more than just modest processing is required.
That was the reason why Ubuntu ditched jack as a possible all purpose audio daemon back in 2007 or so...
Pulse never had that realtime ambition, it was designed to just deliver audiostreams for VOIP and videos in the browser where latencies of 100 ms are no big problem....

Interesting and enlightening comment @Hartmut Noack , thanks!

Fork it, trim it and maintain it.
+1
@freemedia but there’s no real argument for ‘windows is better’
https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Refractapup

https://www.refracta.org/

@freemedia what is implied with the 'refracta' details and distro link? I'm not being facetious, I'm honestly confused... it is very late though, and I need sleep, so please forgive me if I'm just being slow, haha